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  • » Society - Room 1
  • » Should abortion be legal? by Snow_Dog
  •    Pro life or pro choice?

    I am uncomfortable with the idea of abortion, but I firmly believe that it should be the woman in question's choice, and she should be able to get one in a safe place. No one is proud of it, but it's better than hoping for an adoption or chaining your life back because you have to care for a child.

    Edit

#1 2017-04-24 09:10:14

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@SgtPeppers 

 

 the only remedy is education in the 3rd world, without it people will just keep having to many children for sustainability 

 

Well said! A middle class is the best remedy for a high pop growth rate! And there are two factors necessary---education, and chance of self-betterment through trade. Unfortunately, if they that the second, why would those countries become part of the Third World? Education alone creates only a group of restless adolescents as we can see from what happened in Iran during its 80's Islamic uprising.

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#2 2017-04-24 09:00:09

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@crossel 

Ok......14 days eh? How 'bout before that?

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#3 2017-04-20 12:03:04

          United States    crossel
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




Abortion is murder. No woman has the right to take a life. A fetus is not a female body part. It is another life 14 days after conception the first breath is taken. Abortion is not a human right.

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#4 2017-04-14 13:13:58

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@valdo 

Let me try to pull your threads and make your statement simpler:

1. You believe that abortion is murder;

2. You believe that a woman should be responsible for her own womb;

3. You believe that abortion drops the birth rate down;

4. On top of all that, you support contraception.

This clearly leads to:

1. A line has to be drawn between embryos and fetuses;

2. Attacks by pro-choicers.

If you still come back here, I believe you would find that our views are very similar. Unfortunately, the cost of child-bearing instead of abortion is the primary cause of declining birth rates in the Five Blocs(The States, Europe, Russia, Japan and China).

And another thing. On your other statement, childcare facilities WILL be overwhelmed if every unwanted child is, like DISCARDED into a pile of similar children. It's a dead end.

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#5 2017-02-07 17:45:00

          United States    crossel
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@Higgins 

Your comment is sick, vile, and is worthy of dishonor.:pissed:

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#6 2016-04-05 13:34:39

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@Higgins 
     
Your reply has not been aimed towards my statement.
First of all, my belief that abortion should not be legalized is based on my assumption that so long as abortion is illegal (as it is in the mainland), dealing with the baby will hang like a sword of Damocles over people practising unsafe sex.

And as for this
 

 Opponents to abortion are mostly seen in the ranks or religious fanatics, narrow-minded extremists, bigots and misogynists. 

 

I will not take this personally as I am an atheist with a global worldview who also dotes my sister.

I would just say this: if abortion of a healthy child (let's not bring those who were deformed in their mothers' womb into the debate just yet) is something as natural as the right of freedom, evolution would have allowed it to happen without tools. Yet only the tool-maker aborts children.

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#7 2016-04-04 12:15:17

          United Kingdom    Higgins
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@Archduke 
                       
Abortion isn't murder.
Abortion is legal, and murder isn't.

It's a pity that people still oppose abortion on religious or so-called ethical reason.

Nobody forces anyone to have an abortion.
All we want is for people who decide to go through it, not to be prevented.

Opponents to abortion are mostly seen in the ranks or religious fanatics, narrow-minded extremists, bigots and misogynists.

Abortion on demand is a human right!!!

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#8 2016-02-06 06:59:45

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@Higgins 

I think I might have just said it, but just for clarity's sake, whether or not abortion is murder, it is killing(hence the term pro-life).
And please, don't bring your opinions on the death penalty into this debate. Keep things simple.
For the record, I do believe that until the ongoing sexual revolution has brought a sense of sexual safety (and not just sexual freedom), abortion should NOT be legalized, for reasons:
1. People are already irresponsible enough with their sex life. A pair of classmates of mine already had sex. They're not even adults!
2. The "mop-up" following unsafe sex includes STDs, and legalizing abortions is not good for the promotion of a full clean up. Let's face it, how many people mean "I don't carry STDs" when they "I'm safe"? Sorry, ignorance of those in heat is my primary worry of the "pro-choice"ists.

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#9 2015-12-23 11:12:59

          United Kingdom    Higgins
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@crossel 

We don't need to get along.

I am a British liberal, and by the sound of it, you are an American reactionary still anchored in the 19th century.
You are a dinosaur of the past! I am the future

I am neither for Cameron or Miliband; I don't suck up to politicians, nor let them dictate my opinions. I am no lemming.

Not only I don't think abortion is murder, but I don't believe in the death penalty as punishment either!!

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#10 2015-09-19 02:51:50

          United States    crossel
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@Higgins

Considering how my inbox is full of messages from you then it appears that we are not going to get along. Let me ask you one thing Cameron or Miliband? However I remain firm that Abortion is 1st Degree Murder and is punishable by death.

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#11 2015-07-08 20:07:48

          United Kingdom    Higgins
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@crossel 

Typical reactionary!!

The US kill more innocent people with drones than abortion!!

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#12 2015-07-06 21:45:44

          United States    crossel
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




Abortion is a crime and I consider it 1st Degree Murder. It should not be legal.

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#13 2015-06-29 22:48:55

          United Kingdom    Higgins
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




My answer is   YES.

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#14 2013-05-09 10:38:24

          United States    visverbi
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@madd693 

Now children...

The ethics of this debate are immensely complicated, to the point where no logical scientific proof can be presented that cannot be refuted for one emotional reason or another. The only thing, at this point, that I can say is:
I personally believe, for no reason other than my upbringing, in the right of a mother to abort her baby up to the third trimester.
Additionally, a mother should always have the right to an abortion when her life would otherwise be in immediate danger.

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#15 2013-05-03 21:07:39

          United States    madd693
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@irishgenius 

Why are you moving the goalposts? YOU said a baby is not alive in the womb. Period. NOW you say an embryo isn't "alive" but you give a definition of an embryo to being conception to 8 weeks. The first 8 weeks has never been part of this discussion so what difference does it make?

You want to play semantics games? Fine. It's a very poor way to argue but I know how to read a dictionary too.

According to biology online dictionary the biological definition of Alive:

 

 Alive:

1. Having life, in opposition to dead; living; being in a state in which the organs perform their functions 

 

Biologically, having a heartbeat DOES signify life.

Not that it matters. YOUR contention is that a baby in the womb is not alive at any point. Now you are saying it's only the first 8 weeks they aren't alive? Do you even know what you are arguing anymore?

Another definition for you:

 

 Developing:

Grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate 

 

A growing human is now somehow not 'alive'? I'm sure the parents of 9 year old kids will be glad to find out they can still abort their children based on your reading comprehension ability considering they are developing human beings and all.

Your arguments are getting more and more ridiculous.

Last edited by madd693 (2013-05-04 02:31:23)

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#16 2013-05-03 12:59:35

          Ireland    irishgenius
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@madd693 
                       
"...the definition of Embryo it is: a developing human from conception to 8 weeks."
"...when Pro-choice advocates say, "it's not a baby!" They actually are correct. And when Anti-abortion advocates say, "you are killing a DEVELOPING human being" They are actually correct as well."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_is_a_fetus_considered_a_baby
Developing being the key word.Heartbeat does not mean alive, only development. agree

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#17 2013-05-02 19:21:11

          United States    madd693
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@irishgenius 

You contention that a baby in the womb is not at any point 'alive' is ridiculous. Since we know a baby has a heartbeat by at least 6 1/2 weeks, has the capacity for learning and feels pain by at least 20, and is viable outside of the womb at 22 weeks to state it is not alive is absurd. Considering that most pregnancies are not confirmed prior to a heartbeat it is illogical to debate abortion is fine prior to being 'alive'.

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#18 2013-05-02 17:43:19

          Ireland    irishgenius
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@madd693 
                       
.....Then us pro-choice are divided then aren't we?.I think the fetus is not "Alive" until the heart and brain has developed or when it is first conscious. As Nikoslak said when we establish when it becomes "Alive" it is no more murder than taking a seed out of the ground. I find it hard to believe that the moment the sperm touches the egg, the fertilized egg is "Alive".I do not encourage Abortion, but I believe that it is a women's Choice weather She Terminates the pregnancy when the fetus is not "Alive". dead

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#19 2013-04-28 00:52:28

          United States    madd693
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@calibur 

Oxford is conflicted because they academically WANT to exclude a fetus as human life, but they simply can't from a practical standpoint.

I am in this instance arguing about 3rd trimester abortion, yes, simply because of the statements that have been made about babies not gaining knowledge in the womb, not being alive in the womb, etc. Those things are demonstrably false. The problem is, we don't know enough to determine when the 'intelligence' phase kicks in, so are speculating that pre-third trimester babies don't feel pain, don't have a capacity for intelligence, etc. We do, however, now that baby has an independant heartbeat at 6 1/2 weeks. That alone signifies life.

Those laws are all local (state) and are only applicable in the locales in which they are in effect. There is a whole industry around late term, partial birth abortions. If there is a law limiting/banning them in your state, simply cross state lines to a state that accepts them.

When it comes to life of a human being, I'd rather err on the side of life than accept the limited knowledge on the subject leading to speculation. One thing I believe for certain, if a baby reaches the stage that it could survive outside of the womb and you still abort it, that is murder regardless of what the law says. At that point you have taken the life of a viable human being in a premeditated manner.

Just curious, but your statement that you are against 3rd trimester abortion is in conflict with your earlier statements that babies don't have a capacity for knowledge in the womb. If the latter were true in your mind, then why would you oppose abortion at any point prior to birth?

Last edited by madd693 (2013-04-28 00:54:27)

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#20 2013-04-27 20:01:01

          United States    calibur
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Re: Should abortion be legal?




@madd693 

Oxford seems to be at war with itself about the definition of a baby- for, in the definition of baby it seems that it has been born is a key component, yet it includes baby in the definition of fetus.

You seem to be referring to third trimester babies. I am against third trimester abortions. You've had plenty of time to abort by that point... I thought it was against the law, but in my research I found it was only nominally so. At what time are you arguing against abortion? All times? or merely the third trimester?

there are no laws to protect unborn babies under any circumstances.

that is not true. they may be weak... but there are such laws. A 24-hour waiting period, requiring the doctor to inform the patient of alternatives... TECHNICALLY, though not effectively, abortions are banned in the third trimester unless they threaten the health of the mother.

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