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  • » Greatest armies in history by PatrickDup
  •    Debate on greatest fighting units/armies of all time. From Legion to Macedonian Phalanx.

    There are many views on which historical military unit or army has been the greatest and most effective during its own time and how much of an effect it has had on the world during its hayday. One view is the that armies like those of the Macedonian or Eporite Greeks with Macedonian Greek style 5-6m long pike/sarissa Phalanx and the composition of armies that it was a part of, made of 15% regular 2.5 metre long spear armed hoplites in the style of the Spartans and Athenians, 5% archers like the famed creten archers with composite bows, 5% light armed troops of say slingers and peltasts, 15% cavalry like Greek Thesalian cavalry and Macedonian or Eporite Companion cavalry, and 60% Macedonian style hoplites, were the most effective armies of their day as an Eporite Greek army of this composition  even beat the roman legions at one point in history at the beginning of the rise of Rome at the battles of Heraclea and Asculum and tied at the Battle of Beneventum (Good event) due to having a smaller army and the fact that the Romans occupied a strong defensive fort position. Others would disagree and say that the Roman legions and the legionary cohorts and their centurions were the best of their day as they beat the Macedonians and their Macedonian style Phalanx at the Battle of Cynocephalae (Dogs Heads) and several other battles during the Macedonian-Roman Wars. Still others would claim the fact that the late Byzantine Greek Empire, a successor state to the Roman Empire, lasting for 903 years if the beginning is considered to be during the reign of Justinian in around 550 AD, the longest lasting single political and military entity in history, that its army was the greatest military force in history as it held off invaders from the Franks to the late Hunnic tribes to the Bulgars and Slavs to the Sasanian Persians and the Arab muslims and, for a while, the "Barbaric" Turkic tribal federations such as the Seljuks and the Ottomans. These armies at times were likely to have composed 40% heavy infantry pikemen with 5-6m long pikes, 30% heavy cataphractos cavalry who were well armored both rider and horse and armed with a long lance and a long sword and composite bow and arrows and 30% well trained archers with composite bows and arrows. Make your argue-meants clear and supply statistics and facts and maybe we will come to an agreement on the best of the best.

    Edit

#21 2014-08-03 19:08:15

          Ireland    irishgenius
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Re: Greatest armies in history




In terms of tactics: The Hellenic States
In terms of all round Military strength:Rome

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#22 2014-07-25 08:55:41

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@america 

The soviets fell to currency war, (*).

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#23 2014-07-25 03:08:24

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




The Janissary also earned the Ottomans the title "Empire of ammunition", so their firepower, though obsolete by modern terms, was a headache for Europeans then. hump

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#24 2014-07-25 03:03:15

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




Also the Ottomans were remarkable too, like the Janissary, the Sipahi and the Akinci were great before they corrupted and their overall successor Nizam al-Cedid didn't get much of a chance to perform themselves.

And the Ottoman navy under Barbarossa was unbeatable. Oh~...

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#25 2014-07-24 07:24:48

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@Patrickdup

  Constantinopolos? cataphractos? Ugh, not incomprehensible, but I don't like guessing what I read, do you? diagree

  Anyway, I do agree with your opinion on the competence of the Byzantine army. They also adopted more central Asian units like camel riders. In the Republic and early Empire Parthians just luurrrvvvv torturing Romans with camel units. lmao

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#26 2014-07-11 19:20:39

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




So, I assert the Chinese anti-invasion force. In the end they always win. champ

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#27 2014-07-11 19:17:16

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Greatest armies in history




I see western arrogance everywhere oozing on this site....
Even shorties which I extremely despise have the courage and wisdom to admit it is not number, nor equipment, nor tactics that make an army, IT IS THE SPIRIT!
Why do you put so much stress on the undeciding factors?
Shorty General Tōgō Heihachirō has "一生俯首拜阳明" inscribed on his belt.
My greatest military leaders haven't updated to Ming dynasty. 阳明,a.k.a Wang Shouren is a philosopher turned general and he quelled the Ning king uprising with conscripted farmers! Put this in comparison to the Peasants' War in Germany.
I am not denying the importance of other factors; they can drastically improve an army's performance, but without spirit, it is a Z-bomb group.

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#28 2012-10-17 17:58:26

          Sweden    Dwayne
               Reply
   1    

Re: Greatest armies in history




If you are talking effectiveness, the choice is by far the mogol hord with Ghengis Khan in the lead during the middle ages. They conquered everything between South Corea and western Ukraine. An empire four times the size of Alexander the Great and twice the size of the roman empire. And remember, theese were not warriors. Theese people were nomads living on the plains of Mongolia. They knew how to siege a tent camp, but over that was unthinkable. But in when Ghengis Khan united the mongol tribes into one he found ways to siege cities the size of Beijing!

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#29 2011-10-13 07:37:40

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




If I was going to make a list of best armies or military forces it would be something like this and i will give reasons. Taking in mind that you must compare them as relative to their success during their own day, as you cant just compare each army by their accomplishments overall since different armies at different times were exposed to different threats and challenges and had access to different technologies in their own days.

1-The Eporite Greek/Macedonian Greek style Phalanx and the army with the composition of soldiers that it fought with for example an army with composition of troops like this - 35,000 men, of which 20,000 are Greek macedonian style phalangites, 3,000 are heavy cavalry, 6,000 are levy hoplites in the style of Spartans and Athenians, 3,000 guard hoplites in the style of Spartans, 1,500 Cretan archers and 1,500 Peltasts (Javelin armed light troops). This is because it was one of the few military formations that could stand up to the early republican roman legionary army and win at times. It also helped Alexander the Great defeat the very large Persian Empire in circa 323 BC and then take him further than any european had travelled for the day and for the next thousand years until european vikings made settlements in Canada and other parts of north America in the 700's/800's AD.

2-The Byzantine army/navy, though at varying times during its history since its success and strength varied greatly at different times as the empire got different emperors with different degrees of competence. This placing is due to the simple fact that if you take the byzantine empire as ending in 1453 with the sacking and capture of Constantinopolos by the Ottoman Turks and take it as beginning at around the reign of justinian and after the fall of the Western Empire since after rome fell along with the western empire that would have been the time that Rome wasn't the epicentre of the greeco-roman culture anymore and Constantinopolis became more important, then the empire was in existance for a phenominal 900 years or more. This was longer than any other empire in history. Its army was very well trained and composed excellant troop types. These were at numbers such as; 40% heavy infantry of which 32% out of the 40% were Skoutatoi pikemen with sword, large Skoutum shield made of steel, wood and leather and 5-6m long pikes, 4% as Menaulatoi which were heavily armoured anti cavalry spearmen with a very thick spear, 3 m in length, and a sword, and 4% as peltastoi which were javelin throwers with 3 or so javelins, a small wooden shield and a sword, which brings us to 40% heavy infantry; then there was 30% cavalry which included 25% out of the 30% as a cavalry called cataphractos that were heavy cavalry which were well armoured both horse and rider and had long lance which was 3 m in length, a sword, and a reasonable sized shield which was however smaller then the heavy pikemen's shield; and 30% well trained archers armed with a composite bow and arrows and a short sword for self defence in the event of hand to hand combat. This army was supported by a well trained and almost unbeatable navy that controlled the eastern Mediterranean for centuries.

3-The Roman Legions. This is because Rome with it's legions conquered a large part of europe and North Africa thus creating the largest empire of its day. Any given army could range from 85,000 with 8 over sized legions and extra velites (Javelin men), to a regular sized army of 30-40,000 men with 6-8 regular sized legions. For the army of 85,000, each legion would have composed both roman and allies with 3,500 roman legionaries and 3,500 allied legionaries, 500 roman and 500 allied cavalry, and 1,000 roman and 1,000 allied velites(javelin men). This army 85,000 strong therefor contained 28,000 roman legionaries, 28,000 allied legionaries, 8,000 roman velites and 8,000 allied velites, and 4,000 roman and 4,000 allied cavalry and 5,000 extra velites attached to the army.

4-The Mongol Horde and their horse archer cavalry warriors. This is due to the fact that in their hay day, from the 1200's-1400's, the Mongols under such leaders as Genghis Kahn and Kublie Kahn were almost undefeated and ruled over the second largest area of land for any one people. At the onset of the mongol invasions of China in the early 1200's there were only about 450,000 mongols of whom around 175,000 were mongol warriors. These would be divided into tumens of 10,000 men each of which was commanded by a mongol general and could make up a much larger army. The mongol warriors each had 3 or 4 steppe donkeys to alternate riding on so as to cover ground faster than any other army of the time, carried a heavy wooden mace and a composite bow and arrows with bone arrow heads which were very effective. They gradually became more advanced with the more territories they conquered and adopted metal arrow heads and swords and metal maces as time went on.

5-The United States military from 1940 onwards. This is because of the technological supremacy of the united States and thus its military. It has won most of the battles and wars it has been involved in and has a level of training that few armies can equal.

6-The British Empire and its navy but also its reasonable army. This is obviously due to the fact that during the British empires almost 300 years, the British were victorious the majority of times and had the best navy for hundreds of years. The British empire was also the largest the world had and has yet to see, ruling over 1/4 of the worlds people and land.

7-The German military of ww2 in particular the Wermacht and Waffen SS for reasons that are so obvious im going to save a little time by not saying the reasons as i have been writing at this point for a while.

8-Napoleonic France. The French Grand Armee under Napoleon Boneparte and his generals held europe and russia by the throat for around 20 years and was extremely well lead and well supplied with advanced logistics and well trained and very well motivated men.

9-The Greek city-states of varying times and their hoplite armies and especially their almost unbeatable navies (except when versing other Greeks). Greek city-states like Athens were some of the first super powers of the Mediteranean and Athens in particular had an exceptional navy of 375 triremes at the height of its power, a boat that the greeks are credited with inventing and that was in use for almost a thousand years with the Greeks and by various peoples apart from the Greeks including the Romans, Persians and Carthagians/Phoenicians. Also the Spartan's and their truly awesome army and warriors. These were a people who had the first professional army.

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#30 2011-09-25 07:48:41

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




If I was going to make a list of best armies or military forces it would be something like this and i will give reasons. Taking in mind that you must compare them as relative to their success during their own day, as you cant just compare each army by their accomplishments overall since different armies at different times were exposed to different threats and challenges and had access to different technologies in their own days.

1-The Eporite Greek/Macedonian Greek style Phalanx and the army with the composition of soldiers that it fought with for example an army with composition of troops like this - 35,000 men, of which 20,000 are Greek macedonian style phalangites, 3,000 are heavy cavalry, 6,000 are levy hoplites in the style of Spartans and Athenians, 3,000 guard hoplites in the style of Spartans, 1,500 Cretan archers and 1,500 Peltasts (Javelin armed light troops). This is because it was one of the few military formations that could stand up to the early republican roman legionary army and win at times. It also helped Alexander the Great defeat the very large Persian Empire and take him further than any european had travelled for the day and for the next thousand years until european vikings made settlements in canada and other parts of north america in the 700's/800's.

2-The Byzantine army/navy, though at varying times during its history since its success and strength varied greatly at different times as the empire got different emperors with different degrees of competence. This was due to the simple fact that if you take the byzantine empire as ending in 1453 with the sacking and capture of Constantinopolos by the Ottoman Turks and take it as beginning at around the reign of justinian and after the fall of the Western Empire since after rome fell along with the western empire that would have been the time that Rome wasn't the epicentre of the greeco-roman culture anymore and Constantinopolis became more important, then the empire was in existance for a phenominal 900 years or more. This was longer than any other empire in history. Its army was very well trained and composed excellant troop types at numbers such as 40% heavy infantry with sword, large shield and 5-6m long pikes, 30% heavy cavalry called cataphractos that were well armored both horse and rider and had long lance and sword, and 30% well trained archers. This army was supported by a well trained and almost unbeatable navy that controlled the eastern mediteranean for centuries.

3-The Roman Legions. This is because Rome with it's legions conquered a large part of europe and North Africa thus creating the largest empire of its day. Any given army could range from 85,000 with 8 over sized legions and extra velites (Javelin men), to a regular sized army of 30-40,000 men with 6-8 regular sized legions. For the army of 85,000, each legion would have composed both roman and allies with 3,500 roman legionaries and 3,500 allied legionaries, 500 roman and 500 allied cavalry, and 1,000 roman and 1,000 allied velites(javelin men). This army 85,000 strong therefor contained 28,000 roman legionaries, 28,000 allied legionaries, 8,000 roman velites and 8,000 allied velites, and 4,000 roman and 4,000 allied cavalry and 5,000 extra velites.

4-The Mongol Horde and their horse archer cavalry warriors. This is due to the fact that in their hay day, from the 1200's-1400's, the Mongols under such leaders as Genghis Kahn and Kublie Kahn were almost undefeated and ruled over the second largest area of land for any one people. At the onset of the mongol invasions of China in the early 1200's there were only about 450,000 mongols of whom around 175,000 were mongol warriors. These would be divided into tumens of 10,000 men each of which was commanded by a mongol general and could make up a much larger army. The mongol warriors each had 3 or 4 steppe donkeys to alternate riding on so as to cover ground faster than any other army of the time, carried a heavy wooden mace and a composite bow and arrows with bone arrow heads which were very effective. They gradually became more advanced with the more territories they conquered and adopted metal arrow heads and swords and metal maces as time went on.

5-The United States military from 1940 onwards. This is because of the technological supremacy of the united States and thus its military. It has won most of the battles and wars it has been involved in and has a level of training that few armies can equal.

6-The British Empire and its navy but also its reasonable army. This is obviously due to the fact that during the British empires almost 300 years, the British were victorious the majority of times and had the best navy for hundreds of years. The British empire was also the largest the world had and has yet to see, ruling over 1/4 of the worlds people and land.

7-The German military of ww2 in particular the Wermacht and Waffen SS for many obvious reasons. First of all, they took on soviet russia, which had a population at that time of around 190 million, where as germany had around 86 million. This would have been a hard fight even if the germans weren't at war with half a dozen other countries including 2 world powers in the form of britain and the U.S.A.. But, despite this fact, they still held soviet russia at bay for four years and killed at least 8 million soviet soldiers for the loss of 4 million germans on all fronts against all enemies. If other allies losses are counted then the german kills range in the over ten million category of enemy soldiers killed. This is due to the germans revolutionary use of armoured warfare or what they called Blitzkrieg.

8-Napoleonic France. The French Grand Armee under Napoleon Boneparte and his generals held europe and russia by the throat for around 20 years and was extremely well lead and well supplied with advanced logistics and well trained and very well motivated men.

9-The Greek city-states of varying times and their hoplite armies and especially their almost unbeatable navies (except when versing other Greeks). Greek city-states like Athens were some of the first super powers of the Mediteranean and Athens in particular had an exceptional navy of 375 triremes at the height of its power, a boat that the greeks are credited with inventing and that was in use for almost a thousand years with the Greeks and by various peoples apart from the Greeks including the Romans, Persians and Carthagians/Phoenicians. Also the Spartan's and their truly awesome army and warriors. These were a people who had the first professional army.

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#31 2011-07-16 14:01:49

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@G34 On another note.

If I was going to make a list of best armies or military forces it would be something like this and i will give reasons. Taking in mind that you must compare them as relative to their success during their own day, as you cant just compare each army by their accomplishments overall since different armies at different times were exposed to different threats and challenges and had access to different technologies in their own days.

1-The Eporite Greek/Macedonian Greek style Phalanx and the army with the composition of soldiers that it fought with for example an army with composition of troops like this - 35,000 men, of which 20,000 are Greek macedonian style phalangites, 3,000 are heavy cavalry, 6,000 are levy hoplites in the style of Spartans and Athenians, 3,000 guard hoplites in the style of Spartans, 1,500 Cretan archers and 1,500 Peltasts (Javelin armed light troops). This is because it was one of the few military formations that could stand up to the early republican roman legionary army and win at times. It also helped Alexander the Great defeat the very large Persian Empire and take him further than any european had travelled for the day and for the next thousand years until european vikings made settlements in canada and other parts of north america in the 700's/800's.

2-The Byzantine army/navy, though at varying times during its history since its success and strength varied greatly at different times as the empire got different emperors with different degrees of competence. This was due to the simple fact that if you take the byzantine empire as ending in 1453 with the sacking and capture of Constantinopolos by the Ottoman Turks and take it as beginning at around the reign of justinian and after the fall of the Western Empire since after rome fell along with the western empire that would have been the time that Rome wasn't the epicentre of the greeco-roman culture anymore and Constantinopolis became more important, then the empire was in existance for a phenominal 900 years or more. This was longer than any other empire in history. Its army was very well trained and composed excellant troop types at numbers such as 40% heavy infantry with sword, large shield and 5-6m long pikes, 30% heavy cavalry called cataphractos that were well armored both horse and rider and had long lance and sword, and 30% well trained archers. This army was supported by a well trained and almost unbeatable navy that controlled the eastern mediteranean for centuries.

3-The Roman Legions. This is because Rome with it's legions conquered a large part of europe and North Africa thus creating the largest empire of its day. Any given army could range from 85,000 with 8 over sized legions and extra velites (Javelin men), to a regular sized army of 30-40,000 men with 6-8 regular sized legions. For the army of 85,000, each legion would have composed both roman and allies with 3,500 roman legionaries and 3,500 allied legionaries, 500 roman and 500 allied cavalry, and 1,000 roman and 1,000 allied velites(javelin men). This army 85,000 strong therefor contained 28,000 roman legionaries, 28,000 allied legionaries, 8,000 roman velites and 8,000 allied velites, and 4,000 roman and 4,000 allied cavalry and 5,000 extra velites.

4-The Mongol Horde and their horse archer cavalry warriors. This is due to the fact that in their hay day, from the 1200's-1400's, the Mongols under such leaders as Genghis Kahn and Kublie Kahn were almost undefeated and ruled over the second largest area of land for any one people. At the onset of the mongol invasions of China in the early 1200's there were only about 450,000 mongols of whom around 175,000 were mongol warriors. These would be divided into tumens of 10,000 men each of which was commanded by a mongol general and could make up a much larger army. The mongol warriors each had 3 or 4 steppe donkeys to alternate riding on so as to cover ground faster than any other army of the time, carried a heavy wooden mace and a composite bow and arrows with bone arrow heads which were very effective. They gradually became more advanced with the more territories they conquered and adopted metal arrow heads and swords and metal maces as time went on.

5-The United States military from 1940 onwards. This is because of the technological supremacy of the united States and thus its military. It has won most of the battles and wars it has been involved in and has a level of training that few armies can equal.

6-The British Empire and its navy but also its reasonable army. This is obviously due to the fact that during the British empires almost 300 years, the British were victorious the majority of times and had the best navy for hundreds of years. The British empire was also the largest the world had and has yet to see, ruling over 1/4 of the worlds people and land.

7-The German military of ww2 in particular the Wermacht and Waffen SS for many obvious reasons. First of all, they took on soviet russia, which had a population at that time of around 190 million, where as germany had around 86 million. This would have been a hard fight even if the germans weren't at war with half a dozen other countries including 2 world powers in the form of britain and the U.S.A.. But, despite this fact, they still held soviet russia at bay for four years and killed at least 8 million soviet soldiers for the loss of 4 million germans on all fronts against all enemies. If other allies losses are counted then the german kills range in the over ten million category of enemy soldiers killed. This is due to the germans revolutionary use of armoured warfare or what they called Blitzkrieg.

8-Napoleonic France. The French Grand Armee under Napoleon Boneparte and his generals held europe and russia by the throat for around 20 years and was extremely well lead and well supplied with advanced logistics and well trained and very well motivated men.

9-The Greek city-states of varying times and their hoplite armies and especially their almost unbeatable navies (except when versing other Greeks). Greek city-states like Athens were some of the first super powers of the Mediteranean and Athens in particular had an exceptional navy of 375 triremes at the height of its power, a boat that the greeks are credited with inventing and that was in use for almost a thousand years with the Greeks and by various peoples apart from the Greeks including the Romans, Persians and Carthagians/Phoenicians. Also the Spartan's and their truly awesome army and warriors. These were a people who had the first professional army.

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#32 2011-07-16 13:49:05

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@G34 Yes well said. They are great fighters, even if their methods and actions have been questionable some of the time. But then again every nation has the right to self defence.

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#33 2011-07-15 16:38:52

          United States    G34
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Re: Greatest armies in history




As for greatest army, the Israelis. What other army has gained territory every time their country has been invaded? Need more proof, the 7 day war and the 6 day war, what other military measures their wars in days? Plus they are surrounded by enemies and the sea, that's what Sun Tzu called "death ground", read what he had to say about armies fighting on death ground.

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#34 2011-07-15 16:29:07

          United States    G34
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Re: Greatest armies in history




D-Day had nothing to do with the Russians, there was no danger of them over running Europe. The Russians went on the offensive after Kursk in '43 but spent most of the time tied up in Poland and the Ukraine. The Normandy invasion took place on June 6, 1944, it was April 25 of 1945 before the first Russian patrols met with the U.S. and British forces in Berlin. The other Allies actually had to stop their advance on Berlin to wait for the Russians because FDR insisted they share the victory with Stalin. Churchill and Montgomery weren't thrilled with the idea and they actually had to cut off Patton's fuel supply to stop him from advancing on Berlin. Patton was very vocal about his wishes to rearm the Germans and destroy the Soviet Union because while the U.S. and Germany could have continued fighting, the Soviets had to raise the conscription age for women to 50 just to be able to continue fielding troops.

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#35 2011-07-15 00:44:47

          Canada    someguy
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@SgtPeppers  

 D-Day was not an invasion against the nazis so much as one to guarantee the soviets did not overrun all of Europe 

 

Actualy very true statement. agree

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#36 2011-07-05 05:18:45

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@directorm The romans were only as strong as all their allies, who made up ever more increasing numbers of their military as the empire progressed through its history. It wasn't just the romans fighting. They had Spanish, Greeks, Numidians, Estruscans, Britons etc.. Yes they were very good soldiers to begin with, were well trained and well motivated and good fighters, but they still depended on their allies and auxiliaries, and their political maneuvering. They divided and conquered wherever they went, e.g.,-Greece, Spain, Gual, Briton, North Africa, Italy and Magnea Grecia. And also they only had to move outwards from a central territory and conquer peoples with the hep of allies while people like the 'Macedonian Greeks' under alexander the great and Phillip II had to travel through thousands of kilometres of hostile territory to reach their objectives. The romans were in a favourable postion on the Tiber River controlling the trade from northern to southern italy. Also the Byzantines had to deal with far more dangerous enemies then the romans did and far more numerous to. They fought against the Slavic tribes, the Kievien Rus', the Bulgars, the Sasanian Persians, the Arab Muslims, the Franks Normans and Crusaders, and finally the Seljuk and Ottoman Turks, but they still lasted from the 500's AD until 1453 AD, an incredible feat.

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#37 2011-07-04 23:20:19

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@directorm 

I agree somewhat, but one question, the Roman army at what point. Its history has 3 distinct eras, the Etruscan Kingship, the Roman Republic or The Empire (Rome reached largest point under emperer Trajan).

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#38 2011-07-04 20:13:59

          United Kingdom    directorm
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Re: Greatest armies in history




Surely there can be no debate about the fact that the Roman army were the most effective in history, considering the resources and technology they had available at the time, and how long the empire they built lasted at its massive size.

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#39 2011-07-04 16:31:46

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@SgtPeppers I disagree, I think that the Germans prepared better for the war that evryone knew was coming, and they fought better, and the fact that the russians/soviets killed most of their best commanders is just measure of how much better the germans were than them since the germans only started doing that towards the end of the war when they were already screwed. So it was the russians/soviets fault for choosing a horrible leader and having an autocratic government, and yes despite the germans having an autocratic government as well, they generals had alot more freedom to act then the Soviet/russians generals, even though hitlers medelling lost the war for germany in my opinion. And as for the french and british, well you cant say that despite not preparing enough for the war, that they weren't armed or it. Some french tanks at the beggining of the war were as good as the german tanks. The Germans just had better tactics and strategy then everyone else. And moving on to the americans, you caant say that they haven't killed more enemies in their wars than the troops they lost, that ahs to show something about their ability to win wars.

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#40 2011-07-03 20:02:17

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@someguy 

The Mexican wars were the exception, WW2 the yanks waited to get involved, had help and were not actually needed, D-Day was not an invasion against the nazis so much as one to guarantee the soviets did not overrun all of Europe, the only part of the western conflict they were needed in was North Africa. Iraq was a military victory, but it is a social loss, bringing untold numbers of enemies to the other sides cause, not to mention it was started on false pretences.

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